When were you last silenced? Reply to Katy Montgomery

By Anna:

A quick (no, sorry, it's not) response to Katy Montgomery -

So, Katy responded to Sonia Sodha's tweet about no-platforming feminists thusly: https://twitter.com/KatyMontgomerie/status/1407768025936412672?s=19









Replying to the 'remember when Paris Lees was on Woman's Hour '





Now, I have a lot of criticisms of Katy, because I don't feel she is honest in how she presents arguments. I do, however, appreciate she does at least remain civil, which is rare among trans rights activists these days. At least to me, or from what I've seen (although I know there's a lot of allegations of inciting dog piles etc). But that civiility matters, and I wanted to reply properly.

I am fucking terrible at keeping replies short and succinct, especially because this whole issue is a viper's pit of logical fallacies and lies... I'm trying my bestest to keep it short here, but in all likelihood I'll fail.

First things first: When Katy clarifies she means 'GC people' I guess this is part of broadening criticism of 'TERFs', who are, by definition, women, to include men.

This is in the gender activist's best interest - the targeting of women as the enemy, and use of misogynistic abuse is increasingly being called out and showing the movement up as aggressively male supremacist and sexist. There's never been so much incentive to point out and condemn gender critical men. Not, of course, that I'm accusing Katy of behaving so cynically, but it's all part of defending a more agreeable version of trans activism.

I also take it to mean gender critique as a view. That is, believing gender is not innate and that it is routed in regressive stereotypes. This isn't necessarily feminism, or an ideology over and above critiquing gender - it doesn't tell you the roots of misogyny or sexism.

What Katy means with reference to this and 'gamete potential' is radical feminism, I reckon. Which holds that sexism/misogyny is rooted in seeking to control our reproductive bodies by a capitalist patriarchy.

For example: animals are in this way treated in farming - from which breeds are most economically rewarding to which cow to put on the 'rape rack' for insemination; which calf to kill because he wont produce milk; which chick to shove into a blender cos he won't produce eggs. It (patriarchy) sees women as bodies, as a resource and as such it needs to control and manage us, based on the potential of our reproductive bodies.

This is the origin, the basis of our oppression. Young men have their bodies exploited in labour, dangerous work and war, and young women have theirs exploited in different forms of labour and as objects of desire and reproductive potential. It’s not possible to challenge objectification without acknowledging the objectification, or its targets. We can't get very far with gender ideology (which, I imagine, Katy will deny as a concept) because it ties our bodies to temperament and behavioural expectations, which in turn are created and enforced by socialisation.

As a feminist, I see the fundamental difference between me and males is our bodies. From that, and society's perception of it, everything else follows. The gendered demands and social norms woven around us are just a shitty, claustrophobic set of rules and roles I want kept a very long way away from my body, which will always be my body.

Gender is a useful tool for a patriarchy which wishes to categorise and control. It's yoked to biological sex, and used as an additional set of limitations which does all of us, including those with dysphoria, a lot of harm. Hysteria and hysterectomy share the same roots, too - but are referent to very different things. It's a bit like that.

And, apart from radical feminists, I'd hazard a guess most people use a real-world taxonomic version of sex, placing self-described identity below physical reality. Being thoughtful and considerate to the upset trans people feel over 'misgendering' doesn't change this.

Typecast 'feminine' traits being hitched to a female body oppresses us. The caricatures of 'feminine' are predicated on women as weak, prone to neurosis (hysteria), needing guidance, being submissive and unable to think deeply and rationally. Our lesser needs are met by frivolous, trivial fixations with gossip and looking pretty; our real fulfilment comes from caring and bearing (maybe baring, too).

The fact 'TERFs' are so despised, though none have ever perpetrated a murder or notable act of violence (are there any?) is proof of the hatred of women defying gender expectations, as well as, on some level, fitting the ancient derogatory, malevolent definitions of women past their biological utility - witches; nags; prudes. Past it yet weirdly obsessed with sex and genitals.





Being male and feminine, female and masculine, or just conforming or not, is something we need to accept and, in the case of children, not be medicating or pathologising - ever. We can challenge the socialisation which enforces them, and not be bigots to those who have a connection to gender.

Suggesting, though, that a boy being drawn to long hair, sparkles, pink and dollies therefore is a girl is not progressive. It reinforces these assumptions, and we see this time and again as the foundation of the evidence that a child is somehow trans. It may be that it's important for a person's self care, to cope with dysphoria, to transition, but a transwoman is the ultimate manifestation of a socially constructed identity and being. 

This construct makes growing demands that everyone adhere to, endorse and defend it as meaning something synonymous with, indistinguishable from, woman. Raging against those who make a distinction, genderists are genuinely authoritarian and censorious, appealing constantly to cultural stereotypes. Therefore it continues to bind gender stereotypes to sex, and it categorises adult human females who may live their lives without resort to gender, or who express it in terms culturally coded masculine, as 'cis'.

And, when we state our case against this, we are abused.

The term 'cis', to me, is as helpful to feminism as climbing a mountain, only to have your kit swapped on the last day with that of an ice skater and being asked to appreciate the pretty spandex and blades. It's just another burden, a luxury obstacle and it looks and feels stupid. A trivial, distracting hindrance that might be fun for someone with nothing to climb and endless leisure time, but for me it's an anti-tool. A handicap. 

It fundamentally contradicts my understanding and many other's of our lives and trials. It's sunglasses when you need a microscope. 

Sexism and misogyny comes from that commodification of bodies which sorts the milk-producing cow from the bullock. Mammals come in only two sexes, and the fact there's variation and not all bodies function in the way necessarily assumed changes nothing. This was the origin of our subjugation and has been built upon for millenia. The roots are all in the assumption a female has these biological functions and should behave in a prescribed way.

So, when we are told that 'transwomen are women' - and when we are punished for dissent - we are being told our analysis of our own condition is not only worthless but offensive and harmful. How is it, we are damned for holding a different view, while simultaneously accused of being abusive for disagreeing with theirs?

How, if a transwoman doesn't pass, are they affected by misogyny?

Misogyny is hatred of women. Unless I'm mistaken for a transwoman or transman, I won't suffer transphobia and I certainly wouldn't try to tell Katy what it feels like. I may suffer prejudice for being gender nonconforming, which is a large part of transphobia, but, again, has different routes, meanings and consequences.

These things have different origins & definitions. Why deny this? Why try to reduce complex ideas and concepts and analysis to a simple, democratised, pick-yer-own protected group?

I don't suffer racism. Not today. As a kid though, growing up to constant chants of 'g*po' and 'p*key', I did. My whiteness, the banal ubiquity of my surname, separation from family and the way I live now is such I escaped it. I still feel it when I read headlines, overhear conversation on the bus, see vile comments online, but it isn't happening to me. Because my race has no biological features that are distinct from the archetype, I can move on freely.

That has a large part to do with the difference within forms of prejudice. Black and Asian people won't escape like that. Therein lies the spiteful nuances, fixations and characteristic stereotypes that lie at the heart of racism, as it conflicts with the white, English archetype - from antisemitism to xenophobia and colourism. There's differences here and they matter. Prejudice based on any divergence from the male archetype affects both of us, Katy, but in different ways. And as our bodies are only superficially changeable, we will never escape.

Back to Katy's initial point that it is transwomen who are being impacted by gender criticals who are 'going out their way to prevent transwomen talking about their[s]' oppression - where on earth is the evidence?

I've thought of a few things which trans activists have done to us in the UK:

* 1) Feminists have been routinely de-platformed, often with erroneous advice from Stonewall, a national charity which had their feet well under the table of the queer theory banquet. 

* 2) Maria McLaughlin was assaulted for filming counter demonstrators, as she and others were harassed at Speaker's Corner while waiting to find out the venue of a feminist meeting. Trans activists rejoiced.

Who criticised that? Here's a selection of responses, some from relatively big accounts;
















* 3) Women meet to discuss the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights' statement, which claims A Woman's Place and LGB Alliance is transphobic and members should be expelled from the party, favours self ID - which directly undermines women's rights to self segregate, and claims pointing that out is itself transphobia (AWP's response here) and are bombarded by abuse, a smoke grenade (near the Grenfell tower memorial) loud hailers and a young man with a prosthetic penis sewn to his crotch

* 4) A Woman's Place try to meet to discuss their oppression in Leeds, the council cancel it after threats; https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/womans-place-uk-leeds-debate-15434988

* 5) Resisters organise a protest in Manchester and are met by Sisters Uncut who release this beforehand:

 

(Let's not forget Sisters Uncut hijacking Sarah Everard's vigil - all detailed in the link above on their name)

* 6) Julie Bindel is abused by 'Cathy Brennan' (who changed their name to that of the American feminist Cathy Brennan, who has been abused for years) after speaking at the event "Women's Sex-Based Rights: what does (and what should) the future hold?"

* 7) A Woman's Place try to meet to discuss their oppression in Brighton and are harassed

One woman's experience of attending the event;



* 8) Anti rape culture flash mob held by Make More Noise is counter protested by activists (Sisters Uncut, again..)

* 9) Abused at Reclaim These Streets in Portsmouth - a protest against male violence. Because feminists joined and dared to have teeshirts and a banner bearing the dictionary definition of woman, they were attacked.

Here is a member of FiLiA recounting her experience, this is Glinners' coverage. Here's a selection of comments from a local Facebook page following;

 

Another witness:

And another:



One man doesn't understand how men chanting abuse at women, throwing their book in a bin and being deliberately intimidatory as well as bundling them off stage is ok -






So, that's nice. Not like we are hitting a bit of a nerve when stating the origins of sexism and misogyny, is it?


Here, one man denies he binned a feminist's book, is defended by a woman who also says it is a lie, before admitting he did in fact bin it:




more denial...












Claire Udy (under the pseudonym Clair Bear), an independent councillor for Portsmouth (after her antisemitic 'jokes' had her ejected from the Labour party) enters the fray, having been accused of exacerbating and participating in the abuse;







It is clear from the video the women 'flipped the bird' - after being jeered at, abused and, allegedly, assaulted. They did so as they left. It's also a pretty shocking state of affairs that women unfurling a banner, which gives definition to what a woman is and thus the basis of our oppression, results in a councillor joining in on chants and telling women to fuck off, upping the tension to a stage a man feels the need to step in and be security. Not sounding very feminist to me...


Here's Claire Udy again:


So there we have it - the dictionary definition of woman is transphobic, out of place at a protest against male violence in the wake of Sarah Everard's murder, and is justly countered by, even if we believe these people's limited account, telling these women to fuck off and chant TERF.


Claire Udy is again accused of chanting 'scum' at these women, and claims to have video footage absolving herself and others, but won't share it.





(The woman writing here swiftly clarifies she means 'trans person', but her anxiety is screwing with her ability to type her thoughts with clarity)






In summary: another man thinks abusing and silencing feminists is fine






In fact, if you really want to get an understanding of just how much women are prevented from speaking about their own oppression, just have a read of Maria McLaughlin's excellent blog where she lists the silencing attempts Trying to stop us meeting. Some more hatred and misogynistic oppression can be seen here.

Katy, it's not looking convincing. Maybe you have a load of counter examples which haven't reached me as I'm in some sort of echo chamber. But, some angry comments about Lees (who has a murky history at best) don't really cut it.

Feminists, gender critical feminists, are harassed; their talks are cancelled; their invitations rescinded; they are mobbed by chanting gangs of activists; they are not only attacked but then vilified further, lied about and see their assaults glorified. This is all down to our understanding of our oppression, and an understanding of what it is to be a woman that's actually shared by most people.

When did gender critical people do similar? When did any try to stop you speaking about your oppression?

Simply, we are saying they are different, with different origins. That isn't oppressing you, or anything like it.

This is DARVO.

Anna (Told you I'm not great at brevity)

Karen White & Steph's Place - tone-deaf with a straight face

Steph is like a dog with a bone with this one, although I appreciate the oblique reference to my previous post by acknowledging White/Woods was known as a 'transfaker'. Steph 'had to dig pretty deep, but obviously, the few gender crits who was aware of Wood's status did not do this' which is just glorious.
If you find massively mismatched battles followed by delusional, bantum-like strutting by the loser entertaining, that is.

On that point, we are accused of not reading the article(s) properly, whilst poor old Steph says it 'appears to suggest that White may have been an occasional crossdresser but was not, in their view, "trans."'
Steph goes on 'I say "appears" because I dont have a Times subscription and am most certainly not going to support an anti-trans rag - so in consequence, I can not read all of the article. But the fact remains the headline uses the words "trans faker".'
Mate, I actually linked to a copy/pasted Times article. So either you are confused, didn't read it properly, or are too paralysed with fear over the impending cognitive dissonance it would provoke. Either way, it's shit.

It's beyond tedious at this stage, and even for me, someone who doesn't enjoy kicking a man when he's down, (but, in the right circumstances, might find it funny) it's beyond a piece of piss to deconstruct this shite.
I've already done that, so many times now (links below) so I'm not bothering now. However, I get the feeling that Steph is very much a last word type. Unfortunately, I have also been cursed with this affliction. It's just a pity, for Steph, that not one of those last, or penultimate or even first words could be accurate, truthful or appropriate. 

It is, on the bright side, funny.

Apparently, gender criticals are 'heartless', even though Steph was asked no less than five times to show a flicker of concern for the women assaulted by White, and after repeatedly diminishing it, decided to gloss over the details and refer to the sexual assaults as 'minor incidents'. 

But it's us who's renowned for the mean stuff.

Now - bat signal to the terven network - we have traitors in our midst! Aside from the shocking tale of Steph meeting a double-agent gender critical in a park - while holding a briefcase, wearing a green neckerchief and muttering about the squirrel flying West for winter - it now emerges feminists have messaged Steph, via some kind of media network, to praise the excellent service of outing White and finally speaking the truth.

Sisters, we must find out who these treasonous backstabbers are. Any information on the psychic communication methods Steph uses to consort with the treacherous must be exposed. Clearly, the hotline to Steph's left temporal lobe is extremely active. No wonder the head is all tilted.

I, unlike Steph, will leave you, as always, to a link to their latest jobby on a plate (UPDATE; dear reader, that link died. Possibly because of me. I hope and pray I won't be implicated come TDoR) 

It appears this is a real hot topic over at that Place, and Sonia Sodha is next in the crosshairs. Sonia, my thoughts are with you. I can only say, through bitter personal experience, it will be fine. Really, really fine. Banality, zero self awareness backed up with a customised echo chamber and an irrational compulsion to flog long dead horses is all that keeps some people going. In the end, it's quite life affirming. There really is something for everyone.

Fada beo an fhírinne!

Ní mná iad fir, cibé méid tilt tú do cheann. Póg mo thóin

My earlier responses to Steph are;

* Steph's Place - Where the facts are fluid

* Steph's Place - Where, to virtually everyone, the truth matters

* No, Steph - Sexual assault is never 'minor'(you cheeky, 'orrible ****)

* It's another Steph's Place response...

Shite said Fred

I saw your article today, Freddie. I felt compelled to respond. The constant use of hyperbole and one-sided appeals to emotion are getting wearing.

No, Steph - Sexual assault is never 'minor'

Who is actually confused here?

Steph's got himself in a tizzy over my response to Karen White Was Not Transgender, *Steph's Place- Where to virtually everyone the truth matters, 

(My other yodels into the void are: 

*Steph's Place, Tone Deaf With a Straight Face 

 

*Steph's Place- where the facts are fluid 

AND

 

*It's another Steph's Place response )

Dear Steph, I wrote you but you still ain't calling...

And, thank you for the concern. I remain very lucid, I am in receipt of the facts. 

You were challenged with copious credible sources and asked entirely reasonable questions by many people. 

You were reassured that no one is linking you in any way with White/Woods. My only area of perplexity is why you continue to flog this long-dead horse. 'Karen White' is absolutely an over-referenced case - there are so many more - and many never go to prison because they are trans! 

Why continue this? Why show yourself up as so bereft of fucks for women? It's a strange pastime, that's for sure.

At least you didn't call us 'gender crits' (read - feminists and other women grounded in reality) hysterical, unhinged or delusional. Not out loud, anyway. 

So let's unpack quickly. 

Steph's assertion that White/Woods was not trans is founded entirely on the misapprehension (which I've explained twice now) that he only began to identify himself and present as a transwoman after being inprisoned. This is objectively wrong. If you hadn't blocked me, I'd reply to you, tagging in Jenny Ann Bishop of Transforum. She could tell you about old Karen from as far back as 2013. But I'm guessing you read my blog, and saw the statement from Bishop as well as White/Woods' former neighbours - one being a transwoman! Inconvenient, isn't it?

Steph's other bit of headline news was from a source who has an unexplained relationship to, and familiarity with, a trans sex offenders wing of a prison. They had the ground-breaking discovery that hardly any of the purported transwomen there are true-trans, which, obviously, put a very different slant on almost every other statistic! Compelling.

Minor incidents: Just wow. It was bad enough you displayed such disregard for these victims, that you minimised the incidents as you did. Now you call them minor. That sort of brutal erasure of the gaslighting, intimidation, forced sexual contact and all the trauma that creates and triggers is a red flag. A very big, bright red flag.

So, Karen is not trans, although I've no idea how anyone is assessed on the basis of an unfalsefiable claim, and the sexual assaults on the women forced to live alongside him were 'minor'.

“he would get special privileges to buy make-up on certain sites like Asos and he was allowed to use the internet to buy his wigs,” said Cheryle Kempton, who was in jail with White.

“We were never allowed to do that, so why was he?” she asked.

Kempton was in jail for a series of petty crimes arising from drug addiction. A situation ii understand all too well. You might  Steph, have a low opinion of these women, who have of course broken pretty critical elements of the gender expectations placed on women, but this isn't Bad Girls or Prisoner Cell H, and women like Cheryle are enormously vulnerable, and the removal of liberty is the punishment, not being predated upon by men.

Cheryle describes the shock at White's arrival. The size of him, the depth of his voice, the fact he never spoke about anything other than sex and this made everyone, even the hardest of the prison officers noticeably frightened.

Steph is, as my gran would have said, muttering both sides of his bread - the entire crux of his argument is White wasn't 'true trans' and anyway, it was only something and nothing. Touching a boob (as if Steph has ever understood the fear) now covers walking up behind a woman who can't escape, pressing an erect cock into her backside and numerous other gruesome acts. Fuck off.

Still, it was gracious of Steph's Place to correct the 'statistic' that a transwoman is sexually assaulted every thirty three and not every three days.

Which is no problem. I'll be the snopes of genderwoo. A bit. When the kids are behaving themselves, anyway. 

Also, a lesson was learnt on this side! It was silly of me to use copy and paste when sharing a live link, because they immediately update when amended - I, too, know better now! Isn't that great? It's like we're growing, together!

It seems hard to believe was a simple matter of missing the second (or first, who am I to be pedantic?) 3 digit, since you said it in both your pieces prior to this. Och well, it's only a small matter.

Not like the way you relentlessly downplay the sexual assault of several women in prison.

That really gives us an insight into how much you empathise with, understand and care about women. 

There's a visceral level that sexual violence strikes us on. It's ingrained since our first experience of it: often as children. The threat and fear of it is life restricting. We live with trauma - trauma that is triggered by many things; It's a pity transition doesn't require having an even rudimentary understanding of this. 

Lets talk about women in prison.

Women who; make up less than 5% of the prison population but account for over 19% of self harm incidents

Are more likely to have been imprisoned for non-violent offences and commit a vanishingly small number of sex offences

Women in prison are highly likely to be victims as well as offenders

Over half the women in prison report having suffered domestic violence 

53% report having experienced emotional, physical or sexual abuse as a child - compared to 27% of male prisoners.

(Prison Reform Trust)

Where 80% have suffered a significant head trauma - many of them repeatedly - 9 times out of ten due to male violence.

When have you heard any popular campaign try to help these women? When has a woman to be confined with Marie Dean or Jessica Winfield or Paris Green or Kayleigh Louise Woods or Alex Baker or, indeed, White/Woods, had a petition on social media, pleading for her dignity and safety? 

Are you aware of the case in America, where a transwoman in a women's prison has moved back to the male estate because of the constant presence of sexual violence from the guards? Pity the actual women can't move, huh?

Your website has its opening line thus:

"Welcome to Steph's Place, a website dedicated to feminist transgender women in the UK"

How 'feminist' is this? To studiously avoid showing any compassion for the victims of sexual predation? To now diminish it even more, after I pointed out how glaring this omission was?

You go on to say;

"But as I read more and more I started to appreciate that my human rights to be a trans woman were not being improved, they were being eroded!"

But, that just isn't true, is it? Why continue to push fallacies, showing not one iota of concern or respect to women in the most vulnerable scenario? 

It's not you who has to live with this. It's not you who has to flee domestic violence in the middle of the night, give up your pets and possessions, uproot your children and local connection to find a refuge. It's not you who is expected to cohabit with a transwoman who's had no medical transition, who could have any kind of history, having been forced to leave your adolescent son at social services because the refuge doesn't allow for males old enough to pose a threat.

The thing is, while you won't see a professional portrait photograph of me on here (or any - as your friend Julie Miller said, we have been harassed into the shadows. 'Cleansed' from society, in fact - always the right side of history with that chat, innit?) and I will not bore everyone with my autobiography: but I have been in a situation like that. You could never comprehend it, neither could many liberal feminists.

It's amazing how unimportant working class, uneducated and desperate women are. Women who's dignity and security isn't defended by lawyers or parents, isn't taken seriously by the police; who've ended up on the streets as teenagers. Or in refuges (we do tend to keep a low profile). Or in prison.

It isn't your life at all, and you never had to do any of this.  You don't have the faintest idea of the perpetual danger women are in from perverts.

You can very easily campaign for an advancement of your rights without displaying contempt for the welfare of women far, far more vulnerable than you can comprehend. Your name will now be associated with Karen White. With you dismissing his crimes as 'minor'. 

Is that a success for you? Are you trying to advocate for your rights, or pour scorn on ours? What have you achieved here, Steph's Place?

You even have a 'Truth and Lies' section, stating:

"There is probably no minority group in the UK that takes more negative publicity than trans folk"

Seriously? What about Muslims? Or travellers? How do you think travellers are reported on? Do you think that Irish travellers (a distinct ethnic group under attack for hundreds of years) get a good press, make the news for positive reasons? Ever? 

Tell me if you ever hear of a case of the police tracking someone down via social media after they used a slur like 'g*po' or 'p*key*. I'll wait.

I have a strategy here, however. I don't deny travellers have certain cultural issues that need addressing. I don't deny that there are endemic problems. What I do say is there is a reason for the antipathy and division. That the prejudice and persecution absorbed over centuries have caused deep mistrust and insularity. I point out the amazing qualities of travellers; the care for the elderly, the loyalty, the reverence for the dead and the heaps of charity work many do that goes unnoticed.

But, of course, it is worse for you:

"From newspaper owners who are transphobic and directs their editors to "slate" us - to exclusionary women's groups (sometimes known as Terf's or GC's or Gender Critical) - to even "Christian" churches who see transgender people as "unclean." 

Steph accused Transcrime UK of being a 'database of pure hate' which even logged people for driving offences. It wasn't exactly true, of course - it was a tag that grouped murders and sex offenders who used a vehicle in their crime.

Ah well.

"All these groups "throw mud" and, of course, some sticks. My community calls all exclusionists "Transphobes.""

Do you call all exclusionists transphobes? My god you must be busy, what with certain jobs requiring certain qualifications or training; with bus passes only being available to those of pension age; to child benefit only given to those with children. And of course you think I'm using hyperbole and sarcasm, but it's all the same principle - society requires checks and balances. You need to help some groups of people if you want anything approaching an egalitarian system. 

"This page is devoted to debunking the lies and rhetoric from the above groups in easy to read, short facts, almost like a FAQ page as seen on other websites. Any links will take you to pages with more detail"

This bit I've included just for shits and giggles. If you go along with the cult narrative of never look at anything from a feminist page, The Times, the Office of National Statistics (numbers, man? Why do we need numbers to talk about people in the 21st century?) etc and you block dissenters on sight, this may be exactly the place for you!

I still would like Steph's Place to challenge their own side, just a bit. Since the triggering has reached maximal clenching over this inconvenient story, it really might be worth asking people to stop saying self identification is the only true way of knowing someone's gender.

All the 'Acceptance without Exception' and 'you can't police other people's genders!' and talk of compelling rape victims to speak of their attacker with she/her would go a long way. Unless it's the tacit understanding that challenging the 'be kind', 'right side of history' is liable to end, well... badly.

It's another Steph's Place response - The last one. Promise

"5th June. 

Karen White Was Not Transgender

Stephen Woods aka Karen White used a false persona"

It would appear my review of Steph's Place's 'exposè' of Karen White aka Stephen Woods has resulted in severe triggering.

I did tweet Steph with the blog and ask for a response, but apparently he preferred to do the ironing (like a lady), thought I felt threatened and blocked me.
A week later, this appeared.

Julie Miller, another on Steph's 'team' was equally scornful, saying my use of the word 'nonce' to describe 'people who had committed suicide' was sickening. Thing is, I hadn't. I referred to nonces as nonces, and I steadfastly refuse to give them a posthumous pardon. One of them raped a four year old girl. No. Nicola Cope is a nonce, just like Jade Eatough, Marie Dean, the nonce formerly known as Nicola Florida and all the other NONCES.

Steph, no one is accusing you of being like White/Woods. No one. Please stop taking offence at the concern over the welfare of women. It does not look great on an elderly gentleman. 
Paul is also on Steph's team

Update! Steph's Paul has only gone and thoroughly debunked Steph's exposè with one blunt, hackneyed claim. Bloody hell, try to remember the company line mate. I just hope for your sake Steph doesn't see this. Or develops the logical cognition to understand the implications. Nerve wracking ..!

Original here, my ripostes are here and here
"It is funny how we all remember some conversations - "Oh, he was terrible", said a very high profile, gender-critical person to me once. She was referring to Stephen Wood, also known as David Thompson and more infamously as one Karen White."

(What is the point of this? 'Oh, he was terrible' is an anecdote? Like your underworld informants were... informed?)

"Karen White is one of the centre stones of 'terf ideology' - using an example of an individual case to smear the British transgender community."

(Here we go - accusing feminists of using smears while using an anti feminist slur frequently accompanied by rape and death threats. There's no such thing as 'TERF ideology'. There is radical feminism, and there is a broader recognition of male violence against women, and biological reality that permeates the whole of humanity - whether they chose ro admit it or not. But I see details, logical consistency and nuance are not strong points at Steph's Place.
Again, I'd like to know were you chanting 'not all men!' Before transition? Do you feel slighted by BLM activists?)

"To be fair, the gender-crits did not manufacture the Karen White issue - it was 'manufactured' by the reporting of the national press. "

(No, Steph, let's be honest - it was 'manufactured' by a grubby, amoral sex case who saw an opportunity that we have been warning about for years. It's nothing new, half of trans prisoners are sex offenders. Pretty concerning, especially considering how many times being trans has worked in mitigation and prevented someone being imprisoned)

"In short, anti-trans or sloppy journalists saw the words 'transgender 'sex offender' 'rape' 'attack' 'prison' 'women' 'trial' 'female estate' and 'guilty' - not looking into the actual facts of the case."

(Sloppy journalism? Please give me the tools to decipher between White and a 'bona fide trans woman'. Please tell me how I tell a transsexual from a cross dresser without the renowned genital checks.

You, Stepheny, got every single point wrong in your ideological screed. You know what's worse than not caring about truly vulnerable women? Using that apathy to maintain your grandiose, targeted ideological supremacy, keeping us in our miserable reserved places. You have a daughter, you say. What if she went to prison? Can you imagine having a child in that situation?
The hate for gender nonconformity is real - and there's few greater gender violations than for women to be incarcerated)

"A few local reporters following the trial did, but they were drowned out by the national press and, in particular, the right-wing newspapers who love to headline anti-trans stories."

"So the mud stuck."

(To whom? You genuinely think you're the victim here, even though no one associates you with White, even though you have a little clique with matchy-matchy haircuts, disposable income and time to focus on your pet projects. You are the victim, huh?)

"And today, three years on, we are still trying to convince the vast majority of people of the injustice the trans community feels of the Karen White slur."

(Oh, I know you feel it's an injustice. If only self identification campaigners had listened, huh? And if only you could manufacture a teeny, miniature fuck for the women who were seriously assaulted)

"So let's look again at this case and hope that some decent journalist from the national media will lay the Karen White ghost one day."

(This non-journalist has. And it's clearly triggered you, but what a pity you wouldn't respond to me, rather than dismissing me and blocking me...)

"The trial that got all the headlines took place in October 2018 at Bradford Crown Court.

The prosecutors were Mr Christopher Dunn, assisted by Miss Charlotte Dangerfield."

(Why do we need this filler? It's like you got nothing, but think it gives you an appearance of insight)

"The charges to which Stephen Wood (aka Karen White) was pleading guilty were that of multiple counts of rape, sexual assault, and unlawful (malicious) wounding. The earliest case of rape occurred in 2003, and previously Stephen Wood had served time in prison for indecent exposure and sexual assaults on children.

There was no question Stephen Wood had an abhorrent history of human abuse - he was a classic 'Category A' sex offender."

(Well now, considering a convicted sex offender helped draw up trans inclusion in prison rules, are you really that shocked?)

"But what went wrong that enabled Wood to get transferred to the female-prison estate?

Actually, several things."

(Self identification fanatics. Stonewall. Squealing wailing misogynistic bastards. An institutionalised hatred of women. 'Trans women are women' on blast every fuckin day. 'You don't get to police other people's gender!'. An incredible concentration on trans offenders who's background of rape and murder is obscured, while they are presented as victims . See the earlier blogs, Transgressions and They say they never feel safe but who are they?

Do you oppose this, Steph?
"Wood was very aware that the Prison Service procedures at that time (they have subsequently changed) meant that he could self-identify as a trans woman and easily get transferred to the female estate. This offered Wood two significant advantages."

(Here's who reviewed the policy that allowed this to occur: "Two external consultants were used to inform the review process. These were Peter Dawson (Deputy Director, Prison Reform Trust) and Jay Stewart (Director, Gendered Intelligence). The review gathered evidence from a wide range ... including many in the transgender community, and met transgender prisoners serving both long and short sentences. To our knowledge female prisoners who may be forced to live alongside male-born prisoners were not consulted and no organisations specialising in advocacy work for women were involved in the review (such as Women In Prison)

"The new transgender policy brought with it many welcome improvements ... However, the review also relaxed the rules. Previously to this, legal gender change (through acquisition of a Gender Recognition Certificate) and/or having had genital surgery were the main determinants of eligibility."
He got lucky - still, Jenny Ann Bishop thinks it's not a systemic fail -

"The case boards are a good way of doing things – you can’t say the system is wrong when it goes wrong once."

(A huge comfort to those women, innit?)

"It is almost the exception that proves the rule – you’ve just got to look at what went wrong and make sure it doesn’t happen again. No system is perfect. It’s human nature that people will sometimes get it wrong."

"Firstly he himself would be in a safer environment. The male prison estate is not exactly welcoming of sex offenders unless they are housed in an 'all sex offender prison', such as HMP Stafford for example.

(More filler. He's an old bruiser who loves a scrap and isn't who I mentally picture when imagining a scared inmate. He was also under serious non-sex offence charges - easy to pin it on stabbing, stare a few inmates down and live in relative peace. In fact, if you look at Transgressions you'll see one prisoner who raped and murdered a vulnerable cellmate to do just that - serve a serious sentence for something other than a sex crime)

"Secondly, he would be close to vulnerable cisgendered females and trans women - potentially more victims. As a remand prisoner, he also enjoyed more rights - bear in mind the sexual assaults that occurred while in prison were pre-trial.

"Wood, on self-identifying within the prison system as "trans", was subsequently transferred to HMP New Hall, Wakefield (within the female estate), where he then started to wear a wig and female clothing using the name Karen White."

(BULLSHIT. I told you he was presenting as Karen years before. Studiously ignored, but it's blatant. Jenny Ann Bishop (of transforum) spoke of knowing 'Karen' back in 2013 -

“When I met her she was at the beginning of her transition. “She seemed like somebody who was very much going to plough her own furrow regardless of the community advice, and she was going to demand her rights"

(Nice of Jenny to stick with the female pronouns, isn't it? And here's an excerpt from transgendersupport.org
"Before entering the prison system White was living in a social housing complex.
One of the residents said:
“We did not have a problem with her being transgender. We already had another transgender woman living here and we all got on just fine,” the woman said. “She was always calling the police accusing us of hate crimes against her")

"Within a few days, White began to cause upset, and allegedly four incidents occurred these were:

(1) Stood close to another inmate, touched her arm and exposed herself.'

(Herself? Is Karen a transwoman or not?)

"(2) Pushed herself indecently against another prisoner."

(You mean pushed his exposed and erect penis into a woman while in a confined space? From The Birmingham Mail)

"The complainant, while waiting, felt something hard press against the small of her back. She turned around to see the defendant stood there. She could see the defendant's penis erect and sticking out of the top of his pants, covered by his tights."

"(3) Kissed an inmate on the neck."

"(4) Made inappropriate comments about oral sex and then put a female inmates hand on the ‘Whites left breast’ so she could feel her padded bra."

(Sounds like you're downplaying this here. Quite a lot. These women had already been gaslit, were trapped and then assaulted)

"After complaints, White was interviewed about the alleged four incidents - but contested two of them. For the other two incidents where there was apparently witnesses, he agreed to plead guilty to the subsequent charges.

"And so to court where Christopher Dunn, the senior prosecutor, said these words about Stephen Wood's sudden claim to be transgender when in the male estate:

"Allegedly’ transgender. The prosecution says allegedly because there are smatterings of evidence in this case that the defendant’s approach to transitioning has been less than committed."

"Then Mr Dunn added

“The prosecution suggests the reason for the lack of commitment towards transitioning is so the defendant can use a transgender persona to put herself in contact with vulnerable persons she can then abuse”.

(Do you seriously think he is an aberration? Why are 48% of trans prisoners currently serving time for sex offences? Do you not think it at all possible he was getting a kick out of the dress up? You don't believe he could be diagnosed with autogynephilia / transvestic disorder?)

"The national press did not report these vital facts and statements. There was an image of White in a wig, and that was it - he was trans.
(Bullshit. Here's your much hated The Times "Rapist Karen White in women's jail was trans faker". It contains this sentence:

"The government is holding consultations on proposals to allow people to “self-declare” their legal gender. Campaigners fear that opportunists will exploit the changes to gain access to protected female spaces."

(And you really should focus on preaching at your own, culpable, choir)











("White entered the UK prison system as
transgender" Says the Guardian

"The Yorkshire Evening Post reported differently - but what chance have they got against the coverage of The Times, Daily Mail, Telegraph, The Guardian et al.

None.

And more to the point, newspapers HATE admitting mistakes.

"Even in high profile cases, eventual apologies are often buried in small print on page 19. In short, newspapers can very often print whatever they want, and they can get away with it!

(White/Woods was identifying as trans before prison. However, most outlets reported on him as a predatory man who abused the system)

"In sentencing, the judge Mr Christpopher Batty said:

"You are a predator and highly manipulative. In my view, you are a danger. You raped two women. You sexually assaulted two more. You stabbed an elderly male in his home. You don't accept any responsibility [for the offences]."

"Stephen Wood serves his time in a male prison - but thanks to him and the errors of the prison service, bona fide trans women serve their time in male jails too.



(Ok. Both Alex and Danielle above say they are women. There are many more self identifying transwomen who have made no medical transition whatsoever.
Is that a women's prison they would go to, or a men's? What about your friend Julie who identifies as a woman half the week? How many adjustments are you expecting the prisons to make? What about non binaries?)

"And before we get into any gender critical cries of ‘well this is exactly what we said would happen with Self ID!’ let’s just firmly put a stop to that right here - prisons are a unique environment where we, as those who have a genuine respect for the safety of everyone, are making it clear that a problem existed but it is unique to prisons.

(That is such a lie - No one made an exception for prisons, EVER. Find me one example)

"This is an isolated area..."

(Except for all the other cases like Jessica Winfield, Kayleigh Louise Woods, Alex Baker, Paris Green or any of the many, many here)

"...where there is clear evidence of cisgender men identifying a genuine advantage to lie and take on a trans persona - there is simply no evidence that there is anywhere outside a prison environment where they have identified a similar advantage - they can already dress as a women to gain easy access to any women’s space but the clear evidence is they don’t see this as a viable opportunity in everyday life."

(Seriously, really? Not to be a Girl Guides leader and take girls away for the weekend? Not to get off within earshot of women in their bathrooms and changing rooms? There's so much evidence of it...)

"This is an issue unique to prisons and we have no issue in highlighting this.

"What is however just as important to note is that this vile case of Karen White was 3 years ago, yet still his crimes are thrown at us time and time again as if proof of the danger trans women are - 3 years on and not only is the example used incorrectly as he isn’t transgender but none others have been highlighted - so it just proves how rare it is for such crimes to be committed by trans women."

(Why didn't you check out our other blogs, Steph? Seems like you're extremely well barricaded into that echo chamber, it must get a bit stifling and smelly. Here's one of prisons - like all the others, it's completely backed up with links to original sources)

"Cisgender men still represent the genuine threat to women’s safety and ‘Karen White’ is just another clear example of that MALE cisgender threat."

(Are Dawn Love, Nicola Cope, Ella Davies, Jessica Ann Smith, Tiffany Scott, Jacinta Brooks, Aza McKinnon, Pauline Long, Davina Ayreton, Jessica Winfield, all the ones in the Rich Fantasy blog also 'cisgender'? Can you tell me how to spot the difference?)

"Everyone - cisgender and transgender has the right to be safe while in prison."

(Yes! Yes they do)

"Sadly though, on average, a trans prisoner suffers a sexual assault in the male estate every three days."

(Erm, that article says there were 11 sexual assaults against trans people in prison - just under one a month... Did you think we wouldn't look?)

"Do the gender-critical care about this horrific fact?

No, of course not."

(Don't be silly. You're the one dispensing zero fucks for the women abused. We want you to have trans only wings. Your side says no, it's not affirming enough)

"They dont care that trans women are threatened, beaten, raped."

(Projection... You are the one making this about transwomen. No one else. You are the one playing down the sexual assaults on incarcerated women, who suffer appalling rates of sexual abuse, violent trauma etc from men.)

"They don't care that Karen White used a trans persona - its works for their agenda to ensure White is branded "trans."

(Lies - the point that self ID removes all safeguards and will be abused is frequently cited. And dismissed by hollow laugh reacts, mocking and misogynistic slurs)

"We uncover the full and true situation of transgender crime stats and UK prisons in this feature article:"

https://www.stephsplace.uk/fair-play-to-women-and-transgender-crime.cfm

(To be perfectly honest, I can't be arsed with this now. It's too low hanging and just grim. Anyone reading these blogs will know just how unflinchingly wrong you are. I'm leaving the nonsense Steph so defensively promotes now. Maybe they can move onto something positive)

"Honesty matters"

(To who? It does matter to me - That it's genuine, that it's not a stack of tedious, cherry-picked bollox tarted up with a heart in a logo, a head tilt and grandiose, faux-objective hyperbole)

"Truth matters. "

(Regurgitating mantras like a rabid brexiteer won't convince, Steph)

"And the truth is Karen White only took on a trans persona once entering the prison estate. "

(Proved that's bollox tho, didn't I? Over a week ago, and showed it to you for a response)

Authored by Steph @PlaceSteph (murdered link 👻)
Steph, this is bad. But not just that. You're arrogantly centring your own feelings, as a person not affected, over the horrendous crimes of White and the hundreds of other cases in the UK alone. It comes over as deluded, self aggrandizing and utterly devoid of any concern for women - I fail to understand how you can so egregiously ignore them, while staking claim to that same being yourself.

Anyone genuinely interested in the failures that led to this atrocity, here's a copy/pasted Times article why was a convicted paedophile housed in a women's prison?